"Speedmonkey" (Speedmonkey)
09/24/2013 at 08:57 • Filed to: Hot hatches
1
50|
"Speedmonkey" (Speedmonkey)
09/24/2013 at 08:57 • Filed to: Hot hatches | 1
| 50 |
I've spent a few days and driven a good few miles with each of the Vauxhall Astra VXR hot hatch and the Subaru BRZ coupe. It's time for a face-off. It's time for Astra vs BRZ.
Round 1 - Is it a sports car?
This is a tough one. The Subaru looks like a sports car, but the Astra is faster and outperforms it on the track. The BRZ gives away 76bhp to the Astra, however it's also 150kg lighter. Both have limited slip differentials with the Astra's on its front driven wheels and the Subaru's at the back, because it's rear wheel drive. Both have 6-speed manual gearboxes but the BRZ's is better. The winner is the BRZ because it feels more like a sports car.
Winner - BRZ
Round 2 - How fast does it goes Mister?
The Astra has 276bhp and does 0-60mph in 5.9 seconds. It also has a top speed of 155mph. The BRZ has 200bhp and does 0-60mph in 7.6 seconds. Its top speed is a measly 143mph. The Astra's turbo makes sure it outperforms the BRZ's naturally aspirated boxer engine in every speed and acceleration test. Both cars LSDs ensure they get away from the line like a scalded cat.
Winner - Astra VXR
Round 3 - Can you drift in it?
The Astra sticks to the road like glue. It has torque steer in the first 2 gears but otherwise its front wheel drive, slightly nose heavy configuration, allied with decent tyres, mean it refuses to oversteer unless pushed very hard. The BRZ will oversteer if you ask it even very quietly. Sure it doesn't have enough poke to hang its tail out in anything above 3rd gear but at lowish speeds the BRZ makes even a rubbish driver look like a drift king.
Winner - BRZ
Round 4 - Would it be any good as a race car?
!!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!
is so planted to the road and so damn fast it felt like it could compete in a BTCC race in standard trim. Obviously it would get slaughtered but it really does feel super-fast. It doesn't waste any effort in getting up to speed and getting round corners. The BRZ would be a bit of a comedy effort - it's light but its engine would need beefing up to race, and the tyres would need swapping out for a set of sticky slicks. The Astra wins, but the BRZ's gearbox is better.
Winner - Astra VXR
Round 5 - Do people stop and stare at it?
Both cars attract stares, but from different crowds. Petrolheads stare at the Astra because they know it is such a potent, but slightly unfashionable car. Most 'normal' people don't give it a second look. The BRZ is such a pretty little thing, and it's a coupe. It gets stared at by most people with a passing interest in cars, and people with an eye for beauty. The fact it almost looks like a smaller Maserati GranTurismo doesn't hurt its chances.
Winner - BRZ
Round 6 - Does the engine sound any good?
The Astra VXR engine has an inline-4 and a turbocharger. It emits a low wuffle at idle and low revs which disappears on the go. The BRZ engine is a naturally aspirated flat-4. The Astra stands no chance. The Subaru's engine isn't loud but it sounds great, as all boxer engines do. Add in the fact the BRZ has a sound pipe which comes into the cabin just beside the clutch pedal and we have a clear winner.
Winner - BRZ
Round 7 - Is it practical?
The Astra is a hatchback with decent sized rear seats, lots of cubby holes and a big boot. The Subaru is a coupe with a normal boot that's quite shallow because it's rear wheel drive, and tiny rear seats. The Astra has an armrest and the Subaru doesn't. Basically the Astra can carry 4 in comfort and you can put your dogs in the boot (although the lip is quite high and narrow) whilst the Subaru is strictly a 2+2 with space in the boot for a couple of squishy suitcases.
Winner - Astra VXR
Round 8 - What's the interior like?
These cars come from different philosophies, and from different continents. The Astra's interior is European high quality and feels refined, but lacks a decent touchscreen. The Subaru's interior is Toyota-spec and feels pretty cheap but has a touchscreen that does everything (bar DAB radio). The Subaru's seating position, and seats, are better than the Astra's compromised hatchback position. Ultimately though the Vauxhall floors the Subaru.
Winner - Astra VXR
Round 9 - What are the stats?
Astra VXR - Price £26,995, 0-60mph in
5.9
seconds,
276
bhp,
295
lb ft, 34.9 mpg, 189 g/km CO2, 1475kg
BRZ - Price £
24,995
, 0-60mph in 7.6 seconds, 196 bhp, 151 lb ft,
40.9
mpg,
181
g/km CO2,
1202
kg
Winner - Subaru BRZ
Round 10 - Which one would you buy?
I drove the Astra first. Once it had gone back to Vauxhall I asked myself that question and thought it was almost as good as the Renaultsport Megane 265. Having driven the Subaru I've come to realise it wipes the floor with all the hot hatches because it was specifically designed for a purpose rather than adapted from a standard car. The Astra is very good, but I'd prefer the BRZ as a daily driver and as a fun car - even though it's not as fast. It's just more fun.
Winner - Subaru BRZ
The result
Vauxhall Astra VXR 4 points, Subaru BRZ 6 points
Subaru BRZ wins
Goshen, formerly Darkcode
> Speedmonkey
09/24/2013 at 09:12 |
|
Yeah I'd also prefer the BRZ. Although if the Astra OPC was offered with two more doors and some sort of all-wheel-drive I could change my mind.
|
Speedmonkey
> Goshen, formerly Darkcode
09/24/2013 at 09:14 |
|
The Astra is a more purposeful track weapon, albeit more clinical than the BRZ. With AWD and rear doors it would probably swing the pendulum in its favour.
Jayhawk Jake
> Speedmonkey
09/24/2013 at 09:17 |
|
I hate these comparisons. Fifth Gear did a similar one, but with the Megane.
Maybe I'm a special case, but I'm never going to be deciding between a BRZ and a Hot Hatch. If I want a sports car, I'm buying a sports car. BRZ vs Miata? Sure. BRZ vs Camaro? Absolutely. BRZ vs Hatchback? No, that's silly.
It's unfair to both parties depending on the reviewer/criteria. If you value usefulness and practicality, the hot hatch will always win. If practicality doesn't matter, the sports car will always win.
For me, in this comparison, I'd have the Astra simply because if it was my only car I could not possibly be content with a BRZ. It doesn't hold enough stuff or people. If you said well, here's a Volvo wagon for free, now pick an Astra or BRZ, then I would have the BRZ.
rcasi
> Speedmonkey
09/24/2013 at 09:24 |
|
This comparison should have been The Vauxhall against a Focus ST. If I'm in the market for a BRZ, I'm not considering the Astra VXR, and vice versa.
|
Speedmonkey
> rcasi
09/24/2013 at 09:31 |
|
We don't have to be pigeon holed by classes though. It depends what you want or need a car for. Both of these will be bought by people in for a good time rather than just as a mode of transport. If you've got small kids, or no kids, and just need a half decent boot/trunk for shopping then both would fit your remit - and then the choice comes down to taste and preference rather than lifestyle restraints
pigpen
> Speedmonkey
09/24/2013 at 09:38 |
|
"Both have 6-speed manual gearboxes but the Astra's is better."
"The Astra wins, but the BRZ's gearbox is better."
Buh?
MootrosMootrosCowie
> Speedmonkey
09/24/2013 at 09:44 |
|
In "Round 1" you say the Astra has the better gearbox, but in "Round 4" you say the BRZ's gearbox is better. I's confused.
|
Speedmonkey
> MootrosMootrosCowie
09/24/2013 at 09:49 |
|
Good point. Was a typo and I've amended, thanks. The Astra's gearbox feels more fragile and notchy
|
Speedmonkey
> pigpen
09/24/2013 at 09:50 |
|
Thanks for pointing it out. Was a typo and have amended. The BRZ gearbox is slicker and feels like it'll last longer.
|
MootrosMootrosCowie
> Speedmonkey
09/24/2013 at 10:01 |
|
Cool, thanks for clearing that up!
Side note: I even more badly now want a BRZ/FR-S... probably the FR-S, because I'm a child at heart and want the extra oversteer.
|
Speedmonkey
> MootrosMootrosCowie
09/24/2013 at 10:04 |
|
It is addictive
frankenheidi_LIIIIVES
> Speedmonkey
09/24/2013 at 10:05 |
|
Uhhhhh... 40.9mpg with a BRZ? 35 mpg in that Astra?
I call that a tall glass of nope.
Taylor Martin
> Speedmonkey
09/24/2013 at 10:05 |
|
On what planet does the BRZ get 40.9 mpg?
I drive an FR-S and cruising on the highway, I muster about 35-36mpg on 93 octane, which is much higher than the average of about 31mpg. In the city I get around 29.
nmalinoski
> Speedmonkey
09/24/2013 at 10:08 |
|
With AWD and rear doors it would probably swing the pendulum in its favour.
With the extra price for an AWD system, it would be competing against things like the WRX and STI.
shirosake
> MootrosMootrosCowie
09/24/2013 at 10:14 |
|
Why an FRS over a BRZ?
04sneaky - Boxers. Blowers. Bikes. And bitches.
> Jayhawk Jake
09/24/2013 at 10:17 |
|
If you said here is a Volvo wagon for free I'd take the Volvo wagon and go about my merry way without anything else.
Maybe an 850 or 850R Wagon?
And to follow up with your initial point, I do agree that the comparison between a hot hatch and a tiny coupe sports car is not something I'd normally go with. Like a few others have said already, the VXR would be getting compared to the Focus ST or MS3 in a real world situation.
Whilst, the BRZ, is getting compared to other sporty coupes like the Miata, and maybe a V6 Mustang or Camaro (MAYBE).
This was a new approach, but its pretty obvious what wins in what circumstances because they are two completely different market designs.
dogisbadob
> Speedmonkey
09/24/2013 at 10:26 |
|
The BRZ wins by default since it's the only one of the two sold here. We only get the Astra as a sedan (Buick Verano), and no OPC version either. GM needs to bring over the hatchback version.
|
Speedmonkey
> dogisbadob
09/24/2013 at 10:30 |
|
Yes, but I can tease you - in lieu of us not getting dirt-cheap V8 muscle cars
Scaggnetti
> Speedmonkey
09/24/2013 at 10:34 |
|
I would kill for an Astra VXR available in the states...
|
Jayhawk Jake
> 04sneaky - Boxers. Blowers. Bikes. And bitches.
09/24/2013 at 10:38 |
|
I mean, it's no discredit to the author, and I feel sorta bad ranting on this particular comparison, but ever since the FR-S/BRZ came out, we've seen these comparisons time and time again and always with the same result: BRZ wins, because it's a RWD sports car.
I'd like to see a comparison where someone like me has to live with a hatch one week and a BRZ the next. I'll go grocery shopping, I'll go fly some RC planes, I'll take friends to lunch. We'll see who wins in that comparison, but my money is on the hatch.
I have driven a BRZ once, and yeah, it's a great car. It's fun to drive, it hits all the sports car cues you want it to. But day to day it's just not practical, and to be fair it's not trying to be. Would I take a BRZ over a hot hatch on face value? Maybe, but it's just not realistic to throw out practicality.
|
MootrosMootrosCowie
> shirosake
09/24/2013 at 10:39 |
|
According to the intertoobs that I've read, the FR-S is supposed to have a more tail happy suspension setup, so it'll slide out a little easier. The BRZ suspension setup is supposedly set up a little more like a typical Subaru, so it's more balanced and little more understeery... at least as understeery as a rear wheel drive car can be.
To be clear though, this opinion is based ENTIRELY on reviews I've read/viewed online, I have zero time behind the wheel of either of these cars.
Maxxuman
> Speedmonkey
09/24/2013 at 10:50 |
|
" In my review I said the Astra VXR is so planted to the road..." Don't you mean grounded to the ground?
Svend
> Taylor Martin
09/24/2013 at 10:56 |
|
Are you in the U.S.? The U.S. gallon is 3.8litres/liters compared to U.K./Europe gallon at 4.5litres/liters. 40.9mpgUK=34.9mpgUS.
kenhitch
> Speedmonkey
09/24/2013 at 11:00 |
|
While I don't think they're quite the same car to be competing just for performance, I like this kind of review because I'll be getting a new car next year and I'm having a hard time picking between BRZ, Focus ST, and Civic Si. The BRZ is winning, but only barely. I've driven and loved all of them. The ST and Si have a chance of winning out because of their lower sticker price, but we'll see.
|
Speedmonkey
> kenhitch
09/24/2013 at 11:03 |
|
Cool. Too many straight journo pieces only place cars in identical categories together - but that's not how consumers think. We buyers have a set of needs and desires and choose a car according to those needs and desires - which can straddle a few 'sectors' (ugh, I hate that word in this context).
|
04sneaky - Boxers. Blowers. Bikes. And bitches.
> Jayhawk Jake
09/24/2013 at 11:04 |
|
Very on point. Every comparison I've seen either puts the BRZ against hatchbacks, which is no comparison in the "sport" or "fun to drive aspect" (even though I love our Focus I can admit that), or its pitted against TRUE sports cars like the Mustang and Camaro (usually not the V6 variants either).
And maybe that's why the BRZ stands out, because the only things I can think of to really compare it to would be the MX5, once again maybe the V6 Mustang or Camaro, and then possibly a BMW 135i? It is a sort of niche market at the moment. Very few cars meet the small RWD sports car market anymore, but that doesn't mean comparing it to hot hatches is still a worthy challenge.
Reinette
> Speedmonkey
09/24/2013 at 11:30 |
|
I think I'll stick to my Skoda Fabia vRS. 0-62 in 7.3 seconds (in the estate version) and 140 top speed.
BigHarv
> Taylor Martin
09/24/2013 at 11:34 |
|
Britain. A British gallon is 1.2 US gallons, plus they have a way easier testing cycle.
|
BigHarv
> frankenheidi_LIIIIVES
09/24/2013 at 11:36 |
|
UK gallons = 1.2 US gallons. Plus the UK has a super-easy testing cycle.
brownweird
> Jayhawk Jake
09/24/2013 at 11:36 |
|
Good for you, but apparently this was written for another of the billions of people who buy cars.
I specifically looked at the Focus ST, WRX, BRZ and Genesis Coupe. I wanted them all, bought the BRZ.
stories84
> rcasi
09/24/2013 at 11:56 |
|
Interestingly enough, the two cars I had narrowed my choice down to was the BRZ and ST. I chose a BRZ after driving both. And it's been surprisingly easy to live with. The trunk is larger and more useful than upon first inspection. This sentiment is coming from a a hot hatch. (To be fair, I rarely used all the cargo space in my hatch)
GRIVLET - Proud of Cobalt
> Speedmonkey
09/24/2013 at 12:17 |
|
How on earth does the brz win in the 'stats' category? Lower emissions and fuel economy? Who cares. Sure the brz is a BIT cheaper but the dollar to performance (hp/$) ratio is wayyyyyy higher on the vxr.
I mean I could drift the hell out of my old astro van tow package with a lsd and 4.3 on shitty high mileage tires. Really my astro van vs the brz is a better comparison than this.
The stro might beat it to 60 as well.
GrauGeist
> Speedmonkey
09/24/2013 at 12:26 |
|
Awesome comparo.
If only GM would rebadge the Astra OPC as a Buick for America, so we could find out for ourselves...
|
GrauGeist
> Jayhawk Jake
09/24/2013 at 12:29 |
|
I thought it was good, as both of the check the boxes for "4 seats", "sporty", "30+ mpg" and "under 27k GBP"
|
GrauGeist
> Jayhawk Jake
09/24/2013 at 12:30 |
|
Well, yeah, because sports car.
plus, rear seats, when you really, really need them.
What's not to like?
|
GrauGeist
> 04sneaky - Boxers. Blowers. Bikes. And bitches.
09/24/2013 at 12:32 |
|
The natural competitors for the BRZ are Miata, Genesis Coupe, & 370Z.
The thing is price / value. Smiles per dollar, only the Miata comes close, but the BRZ is quicker and more practical.
404 - User No Longer Available
> Speedmonkey
09/24/2013 at 12:33 |
|
Astra is FWD:
http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/va…
|
Jayhawk Jake
> GrauGeist
09/24/2013 at 12:53 |
|
The BRZ hardly checks the box for 4 seats. Maybe if your friends are amputees...
|
GrauGeist
> Jayhawk Jake
09/24/2013 at 13:01 |
|
girlfriends / wives / children would all be fine.
Mikeado
> Jayhawk Jake
09/24/2013 at 13:13 |
|
The fact is that on paper, it's directly comparable to hot hatches. The recently-replaced Renaultsport Clio 200 was almost identical for power, torque and weight, and at £25,000 there are far more hot hatches than sports coupés in Europe. You'd have to import a V6 Mustang or Camaro here and frankly, who the fuck would do that? You buy those if you want a V8 muscle car... and that requires a V8. We don't get the Genesis Coupé either, and the Nissan Z/Porsche Cayman/BMW Z4 are all priced north of the Toyobaru and all but the priciest of hot hatches, especially once you've added optional extras.
That's why we compare it to hot hatches, which do sort of qualify as sports cars. If you're being strict then its only direct rival is the Mazda MX-5, and for some the folding roof ends that comparison pretty quickly.
Of course, if you want RWD fun and a practical hatchback body, there's always the BMW M135i .
|
rcasi
> Speedmonkey
09/24/2013 at 13:29 |
|
I see what you mean, but I wasn't really looking at it from a class perspective. I was looking more in terms of potential buyers. The BRZ/FR-S are relatively niche. I wouldn't compare them mostly because as a car guy, I would not really ever be comparing a rwd sports coupe against a fwd hatch - let alone ones with such different performance figures. If I were looking as an everyday consumer, the functionality on both cars is pretty different. To your point of "it depends on what you want or need a car for" - if I, as a consumer, knew that - then I wouldn't be debating on these two cars either.
Like I said - I see the similarity, and to some extent I agree with you - but I think a better comparison could have been made. (Also, I wish the USDM would actually have more hot hatches like the Astra VXR or the Focus RS)
|
04sneaky - Boxers. Blowers. Bikes. And bitches.
> GrauGeist
09/24/2013 at 13:45 |
|
Always forget the Genesis. Rarely see them anymore.
And the Fairlady isn't really a competitor in my mind. Once again, if you're looking at a 370Z I doubt you'd be looking at a BRZ or Miata. The Z is in the range of the Mustang and Camaro. It is small, but price and features are more prominent of a bigger sports car.
|
GrauGeist
> 04sneaky - Boxers. Blowers. Bikes. And bitches.
09/24/2013 at 13:50 |
|
The Z is sized between the BRZ and Genesis / Camaro, but you're right that it's becoming a bit more muscle than sports.
|
shirosake
> MootrosMootrosCowie
09/24/2013 at 14:17 |
|
Interesting. Stuff i've seen/read always favors the Subaru variant (for a multitude of reasons that who knows if you can actually prove) and gives the nod to Subaru for Interior as well.
Anyway, just curious. Either way, im POSITIVE you will enjoy it. I drove a BRZ quite a bit when I was deciding between that or a new STi. It was a TOUGH decision. I came from an 09' WRX with springs and sways and man, the BRZ was an EXCELLENT car, but I hated my life at 3000 RPM. I was waiting for the turbo to spool and it just never happened... Now thats not to say I wouldn't get use to it, but it was a bummer. Now, once I got over it, man, what a bad ass car. Loved to turn, loved to just ever so slightly oversteer (which remember, I was use to a 50/50 torque split Stage 2 WRX) and just an overall joy to drive. Next, jumped in a new STi and I really felt at home. I had my boost back, I had a decent rear seat back and had that AWD that I was used to (now with DCCD!). I love my STi. BUT - my firm plan is to wait a year, save up some cash and pick up a used BRZ once they go sub $20k.
GOOD LUCK.
word-is-bond
> Taylor Martin
09/24/2013 at 14:49 |
|
UK gallons?
MooseKnuckles
> Speedmonkey
09/24/2013 at 16:53 |
|
Before I read anything
, I'd take the Astra. It looks better in my opinion, it may not get stares from the general unknowing public, but I think anyone important would give it a double take, where as the BRZ is a "oh hey, a BRZ" and you carry on. I'm sure the Astra is heavier, but I know it packs a serious punch and for being FWD it handle daaaamn fine. But with the said, FWD=no tail happy fun, which is really my only, and biggest negative against it for a comparison such as this.
Astra is more practical in terms of space/storage for daily driving. The Astra is also likely nicer to live in (cabin materials, features, seats, etc.)
Yup, I'm going Astra. All I noticed (since like I said I didn't read anything so I wasn't skewed one way or the other) was that the BRZ was the overall winner. I don't think the BRZ would be faster in any sort of speed, accel, lap test, combined everything else I mentioned above, so I'd have to assume the BRZ rwd played a key factor in it's win.
Time to go read what you thought!
Whatabouteggs
> GrauGeist
09/24/2013 at 22:26 |
|
When I first started looking at a new car my list was Toyobaru, WRX, 2011+ Mustang GT, 370z, Genesis coupe v6, and BMW 135i. I was amazed how few advocates I could find for the 370, it seems no one likes them. It's the 3rd slowest, after the toyobaru and 135i, it has no back seats or luggage space, gets 18/26mpg, nav is a 2k option, and it's ridiculously overpriced. Aside from the rev-match I haven't heard a single good thing about it.
|
GrauGeist
> Whatabouteggs
09/25/2013 at 03:11 |
|
What you're seeing with the Z is the Japanese Yen gone crazy, and why even the BRZ is $5k over its' original target price. Subaru did an amazing job keeping the cost down on the BRZ.
|
Forcebewithyou
> Speedmonkey
09/26/2013 at 05:25 |
|
Can we compare a civic to a wrx next? Thats about as close as these cars.
|
Speedmonkey
> Forcebewithyou
09/26/2013 at 12:45 |
|
Consumer don't always come with the 'sector' blinkers that most reviewers do. The BRZ/Scion share some aspects of the hot hatch market so it's a worthwhile comparison